Speaker 1 00:01

Speaker 2 00:03

Speaker 1 00:04
Growing Pains.

Speaker 2 00:05
Growing Pains.

Caroline Brunne:  00:05
Welcome to Growing Pains.

Being successful and climbing the ladder of milestones and achievements is just a part of life. We all have to make choices when it comes to things that we’re choosing to be successful about and when we choose a career path, especially one that is demanding and high profile or in a cutthroat industry, it can be really hard to find a balance between building your career and avoiding burnout. 

Our guest today is a successful businesswoman who has made a name for herself in the world of public relations. Working with high-profile clients. She knows how fast-paced life can get on the road to success, though she also has had her own first-hand experiences of what can happen to your body when you burn out. Angela Ceberano is a professionally trained PR consultant with over 15 years of PR and communications experience. She has gained invaluable experience and context throughout the industry and represented the biggest celebrities and brands within Australia, such as Steven Tyler, Mariah Carey, Backstreet Boys, Celine Dion, John Mayer, Guy Sebastian, The Foo Fighters, Olivia Newton John, Justin Timberlake, and John Farnham to name a few. Prior to opening Flourish PR, Angela was the national publicity manager at Sony Music Entertainment. At 28, she saw an opportunity to create a new school communications agency that was obsessed and addicted to results. 

Flourish was born in 2010 and has grown from a home office into a dynamic creative communications agency with a double warehouse based in Melbourne Creative hub of Collingwood. In 2019, Angela founded Marco & CO, a luxury candle and wellness brand inspired by Angeles horse, Marco. So, what can Angela share with us when it comes to success, and balance, and what advice does she have to land when it comes to avoiding the pitfalls of when our bodies and brains burn out?

Let’s have a listen.

Well, I have the pleasure of having someone that I actually causes a really good friend, because I feel like I have spent so much time with you in lots of different capacities but I have with me the wonderful Angela Ceberano and it is such a pleasure to have you on.

Angela Ceberano:  02:36
Thank you for having me. I’m excited to have a chat today.

Caroline:  02:41
Now I know that you and I one could probably chat for days, like we might take a breath but that would be about it and I know we could probably talk about lots of different things but today we are talking Growing Pains, we are talking about that stage of life when you’re stepping out of being a teenager, you’re stepping into being a young adult and the physical Growing Pains we experience as our bodies grow. We have a lot of internal emotional intellectual pains as well. I know a lot about your story, because I’ve listened to a lot of your content and I have obviously spent some time with you personally but I think you’ve got a really wonderful story to share and hopefully, we can dive in and learn a little bit about you and before we do that, I’m going to throw some rapid fire questions. We can listen to you a little bit. 

Angela:  03:35
OK, let’s do it. 

Caroline:  03:38
Do you consider yourself a grown up adult?

Angela:  03:42

Caroline:  03:48
I think you’re the first person that has said, ‘Yes.’

Angela:  03:57
I am because I feel I’ve always felt like a grown up, always. I’ve always wanted to be older. Even when I was a kid. I always thought I was 30 when I was probably 13 and that’s probably not a great thing to be because I wish I had more fun when I was younger. Yes, I’ve always been that old soul with lots of responsibility that I put on myself– Yes, I do consider myself an adult. My husband on the other hand, no way, he is a child.

Caroline:  04:17
Oh my god. This is hilarious and he had the goal to tell you that you would dress like your mum the other day?

Angela:  04:20
Did u hear that on my Instagram? Yes, he was like that is an outfit that your mum would wear. Yes, I think that– 

Caroline:  04:30
Your mom’s super stylish, we need to give props to your mum but I’m surprised he lived another day.

Angela:  04:36
Absolutely. I mean what the cheek of it, just so rude (laughter), 

Caroline:  04:42
And then you had your friend saying it was very New York running errands or something?

Angela:  04:47
We put him straight back into his box because then I work with the stylist– In PR we work with lots of stylists, and this particular stylist is like the stylist to the stars globally like he is the best of the best. He’s like, I don’t know what Phil’s talking about. You look like you’re just a girl in New York running around doing errands, like very chic. Very cool. Then I was like Phil, [Inaudible 00:05:10].

Caroline:  05:11
Whilst being a grown up adult, I love it. What is your most embarrassing adult failure?

Angela:  05:18
Adult failure. Do you know what? We’re going to get deep and hard straightaway. I reckon.

Caroline:  05:24
OK, tell me.

Angela:  05:24
I think it’s not being able to get pregnant. I think that’s my failure, I think as it’s embarrassing because if I had $1 for every person that said when are you going to have a baby? I’ve been married for almost 12 years now. You can imagine how many times at events or family dues or whatever, people ask that question and now that I have a bit of a fertility challenge on my hands, it– I feel like it’s my biggest failure that I haven’t been able to do that and sometimes you feel a bit broken in it and you get a bit embarrassed because it’s not Phil’s issue, It’s my issue. I think that went deep fast, didn’t it?

Caroline:  06:05
Yes, it did broke my heart a little bit just then but I know your story and one thing I do appreciate is how open you are with that journey because you are not the only one in that deep hole of embarrassment and the shame and the guilt and what’s wrong with me and all of that stuff and don’t me wrong, my experience is very different to yours. I’m ridiculously fertile, I’m the person that just don’t even sniff in my direction if I’m not on uncontraceptive but don’t get me wrong that gives– That’s a whole another story of things that you need to be conscious of but it’s just really different and it’s a really different experience and then we have women out there that are choosing not to have children and they are being made to feel embarrassed and they have been guilted [Inaudible 06:56]. Yes, we could do a whole another podcast on that but I’m going to ask you my next question. Who is a more grown up adult that you rely on? Not Phil obviously.

Angela:  06:44
Obviously, not Phil. That’s really good question. Gosh. That is a good question. You know what? I probably have to say Jackie in my team

Caroline:  07:15
She’s a gem.

Angela:  07:16
Absolutey gem and I was going to say–

Caroline:  07:19
She probably looks like the youngest person that we know cause she looks like she’s 12 something. She doesn’t want to be there properly but she’s so petite.

Angela:  07:26
Petite and beautiful and youthful and yes, she is such an old wise soul and yeah, I look to her for a lot of inspiration and grownup advice.

Caroline:  07:36
Love it. Go Jackie. If you were to choose someone to play you in a movie today and then and in her 60s, 70s whatever. Who would you choose?

Angela:  07:46
Well, the girl from the notebook. I love her. What’s her name?

Caroline:  07:52
I can’t remember her name but I know he said the girl from the notebook. Everyone’s gonna know. She was in Mean girls.

Angela:  07:57
She was but then I think her looks took on that bit more of a classic thing people say, look like Rachel McAdams. That’s her name Rachel McAdams. I look like her all the time and I love her smile and I love that she’s– I don’t know, she’s so elegant and that she doesn’t get caught up in that LA rat [phonetic 08:13] race and I feel I can relate to that a lot having worked in the music industry and very interesting industry for a long time where I never really got caught up in all that rubbish. I just put my head down and did the work. I like her. I think she’s cool.

Caroline:  08:30
What about Angela in her 70s?

Angela:  08:31
Oh gosh, I don’t know. That’s a hard question. 

Caroline:  08:38
Its rapid fire. (laughter) [Crosstalk 00:08:40]

Angela:  08:49
I could say like a Meryl Streep or someone like that who– 

Caroline:  08:56
She’s a bop. Absolutely. Let’s go with that. 

Angela:  08:59
Meryl Streep. I love her because it’s that level of elegance. Whilst because I just think you do have a real chic elegance about you and you keep it super real. Like when you’re in your trackies you’re [Inaudible 09:16]. You show that as well but I think Meryl Streep would be that nice balance of boss.

Caroline:  09:19
She’s scared [Inaudible 09:24] you are a little bit scary and I really don’t see that better.

Angela:  09:27
That’s funny because she’s super determined but.

Caroline:  09:31
Let’s dive in. Let’s tell people more about you. I remember the first time we connected and I was like cool. Angela is fully grown up adult in PR. She knows this stuff and you’ve had this incredibly impressive career. You now have two businesses. I think it’s only two, correct me if I’m wrong, but two businesses under your belt and you’ve had this really Interesting but impressive career journey. Tell us, how did you actually get to where you are today? Do you feel like there’s been a really clear pathway for you?

Angela:  10:13
Well, I think I’ve always wanted to work in PR ever since I was 14. I think I knew that this was the path for me and the reason why I knew so young is because my dad had a fam– We had a family business when I was young and I saw the positive impact that PR had on our tiny little family business and what it could do for business and a lot of times I say, I’m not so obsessed with PR, I’m very good at PR but I’m obsessed with business and I’m obsessed with what PR can do for businesses because I just– I still remember being super young and my dad had an interview on a current affair and he’s, which is a big news tv show and it was– They were doing very– This is going back, gosh, I don’t know, 25 years or whatever and they were doing very, it was the 60 minutes back then and they’re really positive, great pieces and I interviewed my dad and profiled his business and I have never seen a reaction like it for the next month, our phones, were just ringing off the Hawk and we had so many sales and it really did take the business from I guess a nice, cute family business to that next level and I was like, who is this agency that you’ve got working for your dad? What is this PR thing? And I want to have that impact and be able to do that for different businesses. 

I think for a young from a young age, that seed was planted and I thought and I saw how happy and how proud my dad was in that moment and I thought to be able to help other businesses and do this at scale would be really cool. I think the seed was planted when I was really young and then I got into music and boys as you do and then I thought, Oh, I’d like to maybe do PR in the music industry or the entertainment industry and then that means I can combine this ultra-ambitious side of me into what I really love is a passion, which was music or is music and then I just started doing a heap of work experience in different places. 

The thing with me was, I hated school so much, rubbish at school, no good at school. I guess put into that category of having a learning disability from a really young age and I knew that I had to make my mark in other ways. I had to go above and beyond if I wanted to make something on myself and I was like, OK, well, I’m just going to throw myself into work experience because for some reason, when I could see it from a career perspective, I was really good at it. It’s funny, I was terrible at math, terrible. I think one exam, I maybe got 17% in an exam. I wasn’t literally that bad with math but if they gave me math and they put it into an equation of profit and loss statements or it was in a business sense, I know that. I was completely [Inaudible 00:13:02]. 

It was just the way that I learned and I was very visual but I had to be able to relate to it or see how it could benefit me in the long term, register the heap of working experience, because I hated going to school. It’s struck up a deal with mom and dad and the school and said, right, instead of going to that boring school camp that– I went to a girl school as well where there were just bitches to each other all week. I’m going to go and do something productive and I used to go to advertising agencies, record companies, publishers, whoever would take me and this is it like 15, 16.

Caroline:  13:35
That’s awesome. 

Angela:  13:36
Yes, whoever would take me I’d be on the phone just saying, I’ll come and make a cup of tea for you or like get the papers, whatever you need. I just want to soak up and absorb whatever is happening and I guess from a young age, I made a lot of contacts in the industry down and then that went on. I went to university actually got into uni doing a Bachelor of comms and then all. Whilst I was at uni I did more work experience working for nothing for a very long time and then I eventually landed my dream job which was at BMG record company, and then we merged with Sony Music and I was there for almost eight, nine years and that’s really where I learned my craft and PR and working with some of the biggest and the best musicians and artists and celebrities that you could think of, ridiculous names like, on a private jet with a Foo Fighters or you’re on tour with Justin Timberlake or you’re working with guy Sebastian every single day. 

It was really critical, amazing talent, and then that introduced me to a lot of mainstream media and I created a lot of contacts through obviously working with the best in the business. I was really fortunate that– To be able to have that position at such a young age and I guess I knew what I wanted to do really young which is really rare. A lot of young people know what.

Caroline:  14:52
Yes, it is. 

Angela:  14:52
Yes. I think that encouraged me, I guess just to work really hard cause I knew what I wanted to do and yes, it was great. I was one of the youngest publicists that they’d ever had. I really grew up at Sony, it was a hard place to work. I’ll be honest, I mean, there’s a lot of in the media at the moment, there’s just google articles. Don’t get into that. 

Caroline:  15:17
Not great for them right now. 

Angela:  15:20
But I learnt how to be the best in that environment as well. Whilst it wasn’t the most nurturing environment, I would say, I certainly learnt how to grow a backbone and learn how to be strong and how to stand up for your talent and you celebrities to make sure that you got the best possible result because I guess in that environment, there was no other way. 

Caroline:  15:42
Yes. I have my next question for you. I’m genuinely really curious to hear your thoughts on this. We associate the hustle and sacrifice with success. Now, I know like you’ve just shared how hard you worked, how much you did for free, how many interns– Internships and things that you did. You were doing ridiculous hour days and that continued from the moment you hit the ground to all your time at Sony and OK, and I would assume would be similar to even when you start to flourish, lots of long hours, starting a new business is hard. Do you think that you can build a career or business without the hustle? 

Because we’re like today, we’re talking burnout, we’re talking all of the things and I’m genuinely curious about shining this light on both parts because you and I are at a point in our lives where if we want to clock off at five, and our team got a going to do xyz, we’ve built enough, we’ve done our hustle and I can say taking the weekend off, I’m going to turn my phone off. I can do that. You can do that. Sometimes. Sometimes we can’t and I know we can but I’ve done that hustle, and I’ve done the 14 hour days and stuff, you’ve earned the rock, do you think it can be done?

Angela:  17:09
I’ve thought about this a lot because it’s something that I’ve often asked myself because I sit where I am today and I think at what cost. I’ve worked so hard, I’ve sacrificed a lot in terms of friendships, I’m missing out on key events, like weddings and family activities and maybe missing the boat in terms of having a baby because I’ve been so career orientated and I do sit back and say, at what cost, but I truly– This is a hard one because I don’t want to put the wrong message out there but I also think there needs to be a reality check as well for a lot of young people that want to start their own business because entrepreneurial ship is really sexy at the moment and for media has made it look and like it’s super glamorous and glorified it. I personally don’t think you can do it without the hustle. Especially in those early days. Business is hard. Setting up a business is hard. Most of even–

Caroline:  18:11
Even forging your way in your career path. If you don’t want to be your own boss, but you want to be the top of next.

Angela:  18:16
If you want a career and I said this actually to one of our interns the other day, I was like if you’re interning or you’re just starting your career, now is the time to make the decision. Do you want a career do you want a job? Because a job that’s cool. If you just want a job, a job is a nine to five, when you clock on, clock off, you don’t have any strong desire to really go forward and be the best in your field, you’re there, middle management perhaps or you’re just there to fulfill a role, basically and that’s fine. Some people don’t want the career. Some people literally want the nine to five, and then they build this wonderful life outside the nine to five. They can’t do that. 

But I think if you want a career, I think in those early those early years of your 20s, you got to go for it because the competition is fierce. It’s hard and if you want to be the best at something, you got to work in it and go really hard and yes, that does take sacrifice. I have learnt over the years I think through ridiculous burnout that you do need time to break and stop and I think that’s what I never did in my 20s and I ended up getting really sick in my 30s for it. I think if I had my again like I’d be smarter about it and take that time to replenish a little bit but I think– I don’t think you get success or have or reach those ambitious goals within your career without the hustle, unfortunately. I wish there was another way but I haven’t seen it modeled yet.

Caroline:  19:57
And don’t get me wrong. This really does tie back into that theory of mastery in the sense that you got to do the hours to be the master out whatever and though there’s some debate around the theory of mastery as well, I believe that there are to be the best, you often have to have a certain amount of hours in the bank of your practice, your crafting your skill and your artwork and though that can translate to hustle. I think it’s also, we definitely live in a world today where the even the term mental health is a thing. Wellness is a thing. I didn’t– In the 90s, early 2000s, we weren’t talking about that, we were just getting on with it and we were trying to break away from the– I started job and I stay there for 30 years. We were trying to break that model, let alone it trying to think about our mental health and wellness which was not in our language. I think maybe though, you and I both agree, I haven’t– We don’t have the modeling what the anti-household. [Cross talk 00:21:08].

Angela:  21:08
Because I am trying to think of like everyone that I know, that’s top of their field, super successful, they’ve all made particular sacrifice and I don’t know whether you agree with this but I feel like it’s also a very lonely place I think. With this life that we’ve chosen, we’ve chosen a career, we’ve chosen to have our own businesses or just chosen to be very good at what we do then improvise and I think it’s, it’s actually lonely. I feel lonely a lot of the time because you can’t talk about certain things with your employees that the business is facing or the challenges, you got to be a leader and lead with strength, and the person that I turn up to at the office is sometimes a very different person to who I am at home. Yes, it takes a lot but I think now I start asking myself, OK, yes, I can go and start a branch in New York if I want to but at what cost? And I never asked myself that question before but I think what. 

Caroline:  22:12
Yes, even and don’t get me wrong, like, we understand that that is an important one, even at that early stage in your life or your adult life but I think your point around, is this a job or is this a career? And you can also pick that concept up and then move it and frame it to the concept around, am I going to create a business to create a job for myself? Or am I going to create a company that sits in a legacy that sits outside of me? Same concept, is this something I want to do nine to five? Or is this– Do I just– Do I want to create an empire? And what does that look like? OK, well, we don’t have all the answers, but we got it a little bit closer.

Angela:  22:58
I mean, it’s good to have the chat about it. I’m still thinking on that question, though. I could change my mind. It’s not set in stone.

Caroline:  23:06
That’s OK. We’re allowed to change our minds, the joys of being an adult but not many people tell us what to know. You’ve personally had that experience of burnout and that is, was really front of mind for me as I was thinking about what we wanted to chat about today and that is the cost of the hustle and it’s impacted your health. You’ve talked very openly about your fertility and being like– We physically as women have our bodies tell us it’s time to have a baby and then if your brain is going, but I need to go to that meeting. I don’t have time for baby. Yes, it’s really hard. Our bodies are constantly fighting with the hustle. Can you tell us a little bit more about what happened when you did have your burnout and how that impacted your health? And I guess what you learned from that experience.

Angela:  24:03
Yes, for sure. I think I was about 34, 35 when I had a full on burnout moment, working way,too hard. Just but we felt funny at the time I was that road I had moved on by that stage and I had started my own agency and had a lot of incredible clients. We’re very blessed that we have the most amazing clients and I always– I’m a– Just an over– I like to under promise and over deliver. I want to give them the best and the most every time. If they’re paying me for 10 hours of my time, I’ll give them 30. It’s just in my DNA and we always go above and beyond and yes, I think my health suffered from that because just burning that candle at both ends and I remember I was on– I was doing, I was traveling around and I was with Olivia Newton John actually at the time. 

She was out doing some things and I was working with her and I just– I felt really unwell and knew something wasn’t quite right and up really early on flights or whatever, and coming back from Byron Bay, we were doing some stuff up there for 60 minutes and I was just felt really wrong, like something was not quite right and then just push through because I thought, I’ll be fine, I’ll be totally fine and I knew I wasn’t because I felt really unwell but just kept pushing and to the point where I was so unwell, I couldn’t get out of bed. My temperature was ridiculously high. I starting to hallucinate. Phil had to call my mum over because I refused to go to the hospital and then she talked some sense into me. Off, I went to hospital and ended up having pneumonia in both lungs and because I had left it so long, my temperature was so high that my organs were starting to shut down and I ended up in hospital for about a week and all my devices got taken off me and they said, actually, my lung specialist said– He said, I say this all the time. He said, yes, you have pneumonia in both lungs and this is very dangerous and had you have left it another day, you would we would be dead. He said, but I say this a lot and I call it the entrepreneurial disease. 

Caroline:  26:20
Oh gosh.

Angela:  26:21
What? Why do you call it that? And he was like, Fuck, because we’re all crazy and we will push ourselves to our bodies collapse. Exactly. That’s exactly what he said and he’s like, if you were any older than what you are like you’re a gone, like you have to slow down, you have to stop, how much sleep are you getting? And obviously not enough. And just a lot of questions around health and wellbeing were being asked and I was a bit cagey about it and I remember we had a massive event that we were working on Cirque du Soleil and I was like, oh, gosh. It was such, I remember the feeling and the thought process was like, this is such an inconvenience. I don’t have time to be on an opening night in three nights. I just need my laptop and I’ll be good. 

Anyway, negotiated a little bit and had to hand over a lot of stuff but I just had really, some hard conversations with a lot of doctors during that week going, you got to stop, this is ridiculous. We’re going to see you in here in two more weeks and you’re not going to be let out if you don’t show us that you’re going to make some changes. This is serious and so I was like, OK, they scared me a little bit and then I had to get myself together and go, OK, I can’t maybe work like this forever anymore or I can’t work in this way. I have to do it some different way and yes, that was I guess, the catalyst of things that had to change and then I did start to make some changes and do some soul searching around that time because I was like, well, I remember actually a client of mine and it’s so great when you get pieces of advice from clients because it shows you how much they actually care and they and she just said to me, she’s like, am I going to be holding your hand at 80? Are your clients going to buy your mid side holding your hand when you’re 80? And I said no. They said– She said, so why are you sacrificing your life and your health when we’re not even going to be around? We’re not going to matter in the long term, you need to focus on your health and your family because that’s who’s going to be by your side. Wow, just a good person, Hey, can we get a deadline on this project, then? 

Can we move from here back to work on what a great, it was just such a great piece of advice and I always think back to that and I just was like write things you’ve got to change, I can’t do this, I’m not going to be any good for my team because I’m tired and cranky all the time and I’ve got no time to be creative and you’re just on that rat race and going around the wheel and just had to make changes and it’s funny, I made a lot of changes in terms of health, I found a hobby, which I never had hobbies, outside the workplace and that’s when I fell back into horse riding because I remembered that I love that as a kid and I think when we get stuck in those ruts through these periods of growth. I think you have to– What helped me was think back did I love and what brought me joy when I was a child because that’s like your innocent state or your natural state and I was like horses. I loved going to the country and I loved horse riding and so actually feel just encouraged me my husband to get back into that and yes, I haven’t looked back I just now it’s like my non-negotiable where I have to get out and, have a hobby and go riding every week and it really has changed my life and a lot of ways and I think COVID taught us everything that we just have to slow down. 

Caroline:  29:42
Yes, for anyone who hadn’t had an experience like yours. COVID very much taught us then, if anything was, there’s a lot of lessons that we picked up in 2020 and have continued to pick up because COVID is not going away anytime soon, unfortunately. In addition to that thing, turning into the joy of like when you felt maybe at peace or something like from your childhood or whatever it is, in your case, you’ve tuned into something pretty quickly. Are there any other strategies that you now use to look after yourself for– That you suggest that other people could potentially try it?

Angela:  30:19
I think it’s the boring ones that we all know about and that we always want, we will let them drop off. Big thing for me is hydration, water. Like I never used to have time to drink water, it’s so simple. Just drink more water and you’ll feel better. I always used to have a headache. I’d be at my computer and I’m like why I got a headache all day, every day because I was dehydrated. Drink more water. First tip, more water. 

Second tip, exercise. If you just– You’ve got to get outside your head but actually mindfully exercising as well. When I’m exercising or going for a walk or taking the dogs for a walk, I used to think about work all the time, how are we going to sell this thing? Now I’m like, no, I go for a walk and I’m actually looking at trees and looking at houses and I’m just seeing things for what they are. I can actually feel like I’m in that present moment and being more mindful and getting into that space. Meditation has helped me a lot and it was something that I really struggled with. I used to giggle my way through it and think it was ridiculous because I couldn’t count down and be still busy. [Inaudible 00:31:25] what about that meeting at two o’clock today? [Cross talk 00:31:30] I’ll just during this during my meditation, like, so funny and it’s looking after your health comes first, I think and I think now I’ve reframed my mindset that actually rest is part of the work and I keep telling myself that all the time because if I’m not rested and I’m not looking after myself, then my business suffers because I had to take almost six months off to fully recover from pneumonia because it’s– I was in such a bad place health wise. I couldn’t walk up steps like it took me a long time to get my strength back and yes, that was a massive cost on the business financially but also my team as well. Rest is part of the work when you’re in this privileged position, I think of being at the top of your game.

Caroline:  32:19
Yes, it is. It’s definitely is and I think we all find our ways of finding our strategies that work for us and finding ways to make sure that we implement them but it’s in the doing, it’s actually making sure that you do the thing that you know that makes you feel better and helps you switch off.

Angela:  32:36
That’s a big part of that being mindful of as well. Like what are you consuming? Like from a physical point of view? Definitely. Like what are you putting in your body food? Are you nourishing yourself? But also what are you consuming mentally? How dark– Have you noticed this, how dark is everything on Netflix? Like everything’s just so gloom and it’s like there’s not many positive. Yes.

Caroline:  32:58
I only like my main go to on Netflix is cooking shows. I watch cooking and travel shows. It’s all I seem to watch like, and it’s funny because it just keeps giving me more suggestions. I think I’ve actually almost run out of most of the cooking shows on Netflix. I’ve watched nearly all of them and now I’m down to like things like the ones that I don’t like so the more reality TV show, once with a pit people against each other. That’s not my style. I’m talking like, cooking just like and I don’t need to know how they cook the thing. They just travel somewhere, they speak to a chef or they make something interesting. That’s the stuff I consume on Netflix because one, it makes me feel like I’m traveling and eating which I can’t do right now. But two, yes, there’s a lot of there’s just dark stuff over it. Same with social media, though. Who are you following on your feed? Who do I follow it? Do you feel better when you see them on your feed and if you don’t?

Angela:  33:47
Yes, that’s exactly right. Just you got to be really conscious of what you’re consuming because I know you go down that rabbit hole I still do for sure. I’ll see people on social that trigger something and I just go no, just going to unblock it doesn’t always happen. But if I’m in that positive mindset, I might not feeling really good at the moment you have to implement that discipline and be really aware of it and go, no, I don’t want to consume this because it’s going to make me cranky.

Caroline:  34:14
Love it. Oh very good tips and easy ones to implement. Now, you’ve already mentioned horses but please tell us about Marco and co., your beautiful second business and of course why Mark and co.? Tell us about.

Angela:  34:29
Yes, Mark and co. well, that was born after my burnout because I felt like every time I’d speak to like.

Caroline:  34:38
I love that you had a burnout we’d like all sudden. It’s what? Why? I know why. It’s fine. I’m literally just teasing but most of us will be like, yes, that makes sense.

Angela:  34:52
A lesson at all, you’re mental. I know. Well, yes. Had the burn out. Do did that and then fell in love with horse riding again and when I’d be on these rides. I’d like trail rides like beautiful trail rides in nature, like it was something that I hadn’t experienced for a very long time and then I thought, oh, wouldn’t it be great if I could bottle the sense up that I’m enjoying like the beautiful mountain scents that I’m smelling from all the pine trees that the trails are going through or the ocean ride, the ocean scent that you have when you’re cantering along the beach and I wanted to bottle up all those scents. 

Through my love of horses and mark my horse marker, the company’s caught up is named after my horse Marco, Marco and Co. I thought, well, I’ll just create candles and it’s not so much about being a candle business or a luxury that beautiful luxury candles. I think it’s more about having a business or a wellness business that creates a platform to talk about wellness and slowing down because I think there’s a beautiful ritual when you light a candle that things just naturally slow down or represents, OK, now I’m going to switch off the candle has been lit, it’s time to just like wind down, slow down, disconnect from your day and yes, I think Marco and Co. has created a beautiful platform to have those conversations that inspiring, busy people that rest is part of the work and the products that we produce for Marco and co products that will help you be reflective, and also restful as well. Yes, it’s a real passion job and little wonderful side hustle that I’m very passionate about. I love it. It’s so much fun.

Caroline:  36:40
Now, if you’re a listener and you’re like, oh, candles, I love candles, we will make sure that all the details, all the vendors details, in general, but definitely the ones in regards to Marco and co will also be in the show notes. I personally have purchased many a candle from Marco and co and gifted many a candle and your journal, you’ve got a gratitude journal, which is beautiful. I’ve gifted that to a few people as well and oh my goodness, the scents are amazing. I just and then I also learn a lot when I follow you on socials or follow Marco and Co. socials. I had a conversation my husband the other day because he bought a candle from somewhere and then I was like, make sure you burn it all the way to the edges because that’s not good candle care and he was like candle care? What the hell? [Cross talk 00:37:29].

Angela:  37:30
The whole thing, absolutely. Otherwise you won’t have a nice clean burn on your candle, and then you waste parts of your candle that tunneling affects your lighting handling at tunnels and I was advised this happened because you got to let it burn. 

Caroline:  37:47
You’ll learn all about that when you follow Marco and Co. and you’ll get to see Angela and her beautiful horses and all of that stuff. It just the feed makes you feel good. That’s one of the things you can look at to make you feel that–

Angela:  38:00
It’s helping others feel good to hear. Many people have taken up horse riding again because I loved it. It brings me so much joy. I’ve just nailed all the last like where can I go horse riding in Australia? Where do you recommend and seeing people finding a hobby at a later stage in life? I just think that’s a wonderful thing. I’m trying a new hobby tomorrow actually, mate. I’m a very OCD person. Maybe this will become my new thing. I’m going and getting surfing lessons tomorrow. Who knows I might have a whole new

Caroline:  38:31
I’ll see you out going. Yes, I saw the practicing the pool thing which made me giggle through hard because it was the best in wetsuit,

Angela:  38:38
Are you going to open up and surf tomorrow, and I’ve booked a one on one lesson because my husband’s a surfer and I’m sick of sitting on the beach watching him when we’re in Hawaii.

I’m like, I’m going to get out there and give it a go because I love them. I never would have done that when I was younger because I would have been too insecure about my body or the silly stuff that you go through as a teenager or in your 20s and have like I’m in my 30s now. I don’t care, just give it a crack. Have fun. Yes.

Caroline:  39:06
Yes, for those who are listening. Doesn’t matter if you’re listening and you’re in your 20s or you’re a teenager or you’re in your 40s or 70s, go take surfing lessons if that’s what you want to do. That’s too short to be too swept up in. Life’s too short to only do the hustle.

Angela:  39:24
I think so too and that makes you a more interesting person. How boring I was for so many years just talking.

Caroline:  39:32
Cause he didn’t he doesn’t sound like you went to any of your friends things, you just the person that worked. I read your story resonates so much with me and I when I was diagnosed with chronic fatigue, I tell my GP I was like, I don’t have time to have credit for take so how can we like wrap this up quickly? And she just looked at me started laughing, when– How do I know you’re going to say that Caroline? Yes, and she was annoyed.

Angela:  40:03
But let’s just learn. It took us a little bit longer to learn.

Caroline:  40:07
Yes, exactly. In wrapping up, I’m really curious to hear with everything we’ve discussed and your insights of the world as you are now in this latest stage of life. What piece of advice would you give to your 18-year-old self?

Angela:  40:24
What would have been have more fun, have fun. I grew up way too quickly, too much responsibility and people leave school. Many of my friends went traveling overseas at 18 and this had the time of their life less so wish I did that. I just did it and I just thought I had to get my career start. My career had already started at 18. Anyway, I was working when I was younger but I’m scared have more fun and don’t date dickheads.

Caroline:  40:52
Definitely don’t take the whole another podcast episode. We’ve got like four podcast episodes that we need to have after this one because wow, that is a whole another conversation. I would literally just get a room full of women or men, or anyone just because tickets anyone can be hit but yes, wow. Wise, 18 year olds need to be told not to.

Angela:  41:17
That’s right. Don’t date dickheads. There you go. 

Caroline:  41:20
Love it. Mic drop [Inaudible 00:41:27]. Oh, my goodness. Well, it has been such a pleasure to chat to you today. I know that our listeners will have lots of giggles as we’re giggling and also just lots of insights. As I said, if you want to connect with Angela or follow any of the things that she does, we’ll see when Phil thinks that she’s just like her mom, or whatever it is. Check her out. You can follow her on socials and we’ll put everything in the show notes and it’s a pleasure.

Angela:  41:52
Thank you so lovely to have a chat and yes, it’s been a pleasure. Thank you.

Caroline:  41:58
And to our listeners, we will catch you again soon on the next episode of Growing Pains. Wow. I always really appreciate when our guests are just super vulnerable and honest with us and I really appreciate the fact that Angela talked about her fertility journey, the things she’s learned, the things she sacrificed and I wish we had the answer for you. When it comes to do you do the hustle? And can you avoid burnout because we genuinely don’t know if we have the answer. But I think there’s definitely something in that listening to your body pace. There’s definitely something in the making sure that you’re looking after yourself but there is a little bit of sacrifice that comes with that mastery pace of doing the hours then if you want a career or you want your own business versus a job or finding creating a job for yourself as a sole trader as an example. Sometimes you got to put in the hours and we wish it was different but at this stage, we haven’t seen it modeled. Thank you again for tuning in to Growing Pains. I hope that you’ve enjoyed today’s episode and we will catch you again soon.